My search for answers about my family’s dysfunction lead me finally to inter-generational traumatic narcissism. Daniel Shaw wrote two great books about it. I recommend them highly.
Once I learned about it. I felt my decision to cut my family off was a better decision than I had initially considered it. I originally thought it was a crude method of self-protection. I wasn’t feeling guilty about cutting them off, but Shaw’s books gave me greater appreciation that my decision was on solid ground. Disconnecting was likely the only solution since my parents were never going to change.
We have a right to protect ourselves from harm no matter the source. Parents and grandparents aren’t supposed to be harming their kids but there is a whole subset of parents/grandparents that do harm their kids/grandkids. Society needs to teach kids about harmful parents.
Reconciliation is ideal. But it’s not always realistic. Authoritarian parenting has created a society of children who were not given autonomy over themselves. Parents have caused great harm and abuse and refuse to take responsibility or even have a conversation about it. Now that these children are adults and understand the harm and abuse done to them, they have a right to be estranged. The kids are doing the hard work of breaking generational cycles of trauma.
And if the elderly must accept that reconciliation with their own families is not possible, they can still go on to try to help other suffering families through their own honesty, sharing, and self reflection. We can always be willing to explore other definitions of “Family”. ❤️
I’m 77 and have been following Rebecca Mandeville’s work on FSA (family scapegoating abuse) recognizing that I have been a victim starting when I was about 9 and also realizing I have had a Malignant Covert Narcissistic Mother from birth, and an enabling father. I recently moved away from all family to finally end all the emotional and psychological abuse. Thankfully I was able to move back to the Sierra Foothills that I love. But I Am all alone. I started volunteering at the DV shelter and am starting to meet some new people, but of course am very cautious. I already had 3 divorces and lots of Trauma by the time I was 40. Recently I also have tried therapy and took a 6 week course at Kaiser on Trauma. I also have gained much knowledge and support from Many Audible books, and have participated In many 12 step groups, off and on over my life.——-What I am looking for is someone I can participate in Peer Counseling with—-someone who has suffered similarly and can share ideas, compassion and growth experiences with. Does anyone know of a Therapist who is helping people try to find a Therapy Buddy?
The answer seems to be that good parents raise happy, productive children, so if you aren't happy and productive, that proves you had lousy parents. So yes, it's always the parents' fault, otherwise the adult children might have to take accountability for how their life is going. And we're not having that.
This is an important conversation. After I got sober in my 30s, I made the decision to ask my husband to take the kids to visit my alcoholic mother. Being with her was too much like reigniting the flames of resentment and pain that I was working to free myself from with the 12 Steps. Fifteen years later she was dying of kidney failure from her alcoholism. With years of recovery behind me, and the earned awareness that, for my recovery, my actions needed to be congruent with my sober values. I'm an only child and I took care of her because I wanted to make sure that I would have no regrets about my behavior. I was able to discharge my responsibilities and I'm left with no feeling of what I should have or could have done, and I'm grateful for that.
Yes I had that too in the sense of love and tolerance is our code. But ongoing abuse and scapegoating is not tolerable - at least for me. Tragic but I had to be true to myself - which meant protecting myself. I’m so glad you could be there for your mother. I love my family and to have to distance them was against my nature and extremely painful although necessary.
I’m having some trouble even reading this. The saying now is FAFO and it can be applied in so many ways. I am aware of parental estrangement from both ends …
As a child I was the identified victim in the family. If there was not enough of something, I was the one who was shorted or blamed. So I basically left my family when I started college. Physical and emotional distance was necessary; actually it was necessary since I was seen as the one who was going to stay and take care of the aging parents. I saw them and visited but absolutely kept my distance from them. It was healthier even though I made plenty of mistakes without the safety net of family.
Now one of my sons is mostly estranged from me and I don’t really know his children. He has told me that I did a lousy job as a parent and made him weak, plus his wife dies not like me. I frankly don’t recognize his values and ways anymore. But I have always said that loving with open hands is how I want be as a person. He is free to leave or to come back if he wants, but it is his choice. I miss him but he has made his choices plain and I have to respect that.
So … I think mostly parents that ‘find Jesus’ at the end of life when they are living the results of their choices and then whine or regret and demand grace are not realistic and maybe even continuing the same actions that created the estrangement. I have no regrets about not being close to my manipulative mother. I greave that my son no longer likes me but I like myself and don’t want to be the scape goat for things he does not like in his life.
We all have to take responsibility for our actions. By the way, I am 76 and have had 2 near death experiences so I am talking from my own experience and decisions. If you have read this far, thank you since this is probably not a popular opinion.
Thanks for reading but I am not sure what you mean. I guess you mean patterns in behavior or unconscious repetition of the very things estrangement tries to change. In my case I “married my parents” … he was a combination of my parents’ characteristics and tried to please him after I had decides I could not please my parents. But I tried to do things differently as a parent. I have 3 children. I am very close to my daughter, in fact I live with her. I am estranged from my son who tries to please his father and wife. I am close to my youngest son; we talk about once a week, trade jokes every day and he visits twice a year … he lives in Texas and I live in NoVa. So it’s a mixed bag. Hooefully, healthier patterns will come in the next generation.
Thank you for your post. I understand. I believe, as you stated, in love with open hands. My daughter is in a similar place (many negative judgments of my parenting) and, like you, I am accepting of her feelings toward me. I like myself, I continue to work hard to be the best person I can be. I acknowledge my many faults and shortcomings and work to be better and do better. I welcome her at any time, if and when she is ready. Until then, I have grieved, still grieve some days, and take steps forward, appreciating the blessings that are present. Thank you for writing your piece. It helped me a great deal.
It is so hard not to try to mend the breach because loving with open hands and respecting them still leaves a hurt in our hearts. I have learned that apologizing or trying to talk about our estrangement only makes it worse. Learning when to reach out and when to just stop and accept my son as he is now was a long process. But I am at peace.
I hope that you too are at peace and that you continue to make your life the best that you can. Peace and grace to you.
FAFO is fuck around and find out. Actions have consequences.
Put your hand in the stove and get burned.
Sleep with dogs and get fleas.
Lots of ways of saying the same thing … hope that helps
I was a hospital chaplain for 20 years so we have some things in common. Good luck with your posts. I have not had the courage or the need to really post. I just do long comments. LOL
Technically, the isolation of parents can be classified as a form of elder abuse—as defined by the World Health Organisation (WHO):
“The abuse of older people, also known as elder abuse, is a single or repeated act, or lack of appropriate action, occurring within any relationship where there is an expectation of trust, which causes harm or distress to an older person. This type of violence constitutes a violation of human rights and includes physical, sexual, psychological and emotional abuse; financial and material abuse; abandonment; neglect; and serious loss of dignity and respect.”
I'm glad this topic has has been raised in this forum, because it is one that has far reaching implications for all of us. If people abandon the responsibilities and obligations inherent in traditional family ties because of self-protection from perceived past events (real or not) and ideological differences, elders may increasingly face poor health and loneliness as they age, casting them onto the mercies of impersonal and uncaring State agencies and private care facilities.
Notwithstanding the largely unproven "cycle-breaking" mantra, the modelling people engaging in this practice may well find themselves on the receiving end of much the same treatment as they age. I'm not saying every parent is perfect—and it is true that some have made terrible mistakes—but my advice is to model what you want to receive from your own children.
I understand the concern for elder well-being, but framing estrangement as a form of elder abuse disregards the very real harm that many of us have endured at the hands of our parents. Estrangement is rarely a decision made lightly and it often comes after years of unaddressed harm, manipulation, or abuse. To suggest that maintaining contact is an ‘obligation’ ignores the responsibility parents have to nurture safe and healthy relationships with their children in the first place.
In my case, my mother has never acknowledged the physical/emotional/mental damage she caused, nor made any effort to repair it. While she may now be a decent grandparent, she seeks validation through external relationships rather than taking accountability for the past. Maintaining a connection at my own emotional expense, simply to ensure her comfort in old age, would mean continuing a cycle of harm. That is not ‘modelling what I want to receive’ and it’s self-sacrifice at the cost of my own well-being.
Estrangement isn’t about abandoning responsibility; it’s about recognizing when a relationship is too harmful to maintain. If parents want relationships with their adult children, they should prioritize repair, accountability, and respect…not just assume that tradition or obligation will keep those ties intact."
Hi Carri, I appreciate your perspective and fully acknowledge that estrangement is sometimes a necessary step for self-preservation in cases of real harm. However, as I’ve explored in my Estrangement Ideology series (https://thestyxian.substack.com/), what was once a deeply personal and situational choice has increasingly been shaped into a broader movement and identity, one that not only normalizes estrangement but often reinforces permanent severance rather than encouraging resolution where possible. I feel that the shift from estrangement as a last resort to estrangement as an empowered stance has far-reaching consequences—not just for individuals and their families, but for society’s understanding of generational bonds, accountability and care. While your experience is deeply personal, the modern framework around estrangement often discourages reconciliation altogether, even when repair might be possible. This is part of a much larger cultural shift, one that in my opinion deserves thoughtful discussion beyond the immediate pain and validity of individual experiences.
I agree with the statement "It is not about punishment but self-preservation ". I have been estranged from my entire family for 40 years. At the age of 5 my father began sexually abusing me. This continued until I was 11. My mother knew the whole time it was happening and accused me of being too pretty, too smart and it was all my fault this was happening to me. I was 5 years old. I'm the youngest of 4, an older brother and 2 older sisters. In my early 30's, I was suicidal and hospitalized in a psychic ward. Through treatment I was able to confront my parents and they denied everything. They tried, unsuccessfully, to sue my therapist and the hospital and the state of Arizona. My siblings all sided with them. My parents are both gone. There was never any attempt by my siblings to connect with me.
I feel your premise is extremely one-sided. I truly believe the choice to separate from one's family is painful and difficult and is done for the soul to survive and thrive.
Please realize how painful your comments are to those of us who have made this choice.
Hi Myrna, You experience is really horrific and almost certainly led to painful choices. My writing is not about you. It arises from being cut off by my own children for philosophical reasons and reactions during the elevated emotional conditions of the covid period, no abuse involved apart from some raised voices and overshared articles and memes. I then discovered that their mother and I had been viciously smeared and vilified in a public online forum. My critique of estrangement as an ideology arises from some six months studying the dynamics of these groups. Not too many of them have stories like yours.
I am saddened to hear of your situation with your children. I can understand your pain and suffering. When I told people I was not in contact with my family, that is all I ever said. I never gave details or blame. There are many more details to the story as you could well imagine. I was in the middle of a divorce, and I requested that their father not let my son,9 and my daughter,7 be alone with my father. My parents took me to court to sue for grand parental rights. My siblings and my parents made depositions against me, and I made my deposition. The court ruled they could have supervised visitation once a month. My children remained in contact with their grandparents and aunts and uncles and cousins.
And when they were eighteen, they made their own decision about those relationships. I realize it is all so very complicated. I understand the pain and heartache. I would just like you to also understand the difficulty and pain it is to hear your words. And feel once again that is my fault and I am carrying the burden of the sins of my father and mother. I wish you a peaceful life. I hope there is some reconciliation for your family.
In Steven’s recent post, he acknowledges that there are situations where estrangement and no contact are completely necessary.
I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through as that’s an immense amount of pain to carry for so long. As someone who has also experienced sexual abuse, I understand how deep and lasting the impact can be. Even at 37, I’m still in the process of healing.
I'm 71 and have been in and out of therapy all of these years. I can tell you, I have a good life. I have worked very hard to create a peaceful existence. I have many friends who love me. I have many friends whom I love. I wish you all the best on your life journey 💖 You've got this!
Interesting theoretical perspective. I do sometimes wonder about those that didn’t try very often or very hard to make amends. For someone like me, however, who tried 20-30 times with the same result, I KNOW that I gave it the best shot I could.
I appreciate your thoughtful perspective and the recognition that, for many, estrangement is a necessary step for self-preservation. I also understand the concern about broader cultural shifts and how estrangement is framed in modern discussions.
That said, I think this is where deep truths come into play—two seemingly opposing ideas can both hold weight. Estrangement can be both an act of self-protection and a loss. It can be both a necessary boundary and a painful rupture. It can be both empowering and deeply sorrowful.
I don’t believe estrangement is inherently about rejecting reconciliation; rather, it’s often about accepting that reconciliation isn’t always possible at least not without genuine accountability and repair. In my case, my mother has never taken responsibility for the harm she caused. She may be a good grandparent now, but that doesn’t erase what was done or the impact it had on me. Deep truth: people can change in some ways while remaining unchanged in others.
I agree that generational bonds and accountability are important, but I also believe accountability should apply to both parents and children. If reconciliation is to happen, it has to be built on mutual effort, not just a societal expectation that family ties should always be preserved.
I appreciate this discussion because it highlights the tension between repair and release, obligation and autonomy, connection and protection all of which are deeply personal and situational. Thank you for engaging in this conversation with nuance.
Families and relationships are incredibly complex, and as you say, estrangement is deeply personal, with pain on all sides. I wouldn’t presume to judge your experience or how you’ve chosen to navigate it.
Having spent a great deal of time studying estrangement as an ideological movement, particularly its mediation through therapists and online communities, I’ve observed a huge generational gap in understanding. For instance, when I first encountered the accusation of violating "boundaries," I had no idea what was being leveled at me. What boundaries? Who defined them? When and for what purpose? At what point did stepping over some arbitrary and often unspoken line in the sand become grounds for permanent severance? And how did this therapy-driven language suddenly become the defining framework for family relationships?
The same applies to "accountability." What exactly does it mean? Who decides what constitutes accountability, and how much is enough? Do parents need to engage in a perpetual act of self-flagellation, endlessly proving their remorse, without any clear path to reconciliation? The way these concepts are applied seems deeply one-sided, often positioning parents in a no-win situation, where they must "prove" themselves according to evolving and often unattainable standards—all while being given little to no input in the process.
This is why I started exploring the ideological underpinnings of modern estrangement—to help make sense of what, to many older generations, feels like a power dynamic in which parents are cast as irredeemable, while adult children assume the roles of judge, jury and executioner. My article Part 3: The One-Sided Path to Redemption examines this dynamic in detail, and I’ll be releasing another article soon on how No Contact regimes place parents in a lose-lose situation.
Of course, I recognize that some relationships truly are harmful, and in such cases, distance may be necessary. But estrangement also comes with significant emotional and relational risks for both the parent and the adult child—a reality that is often overlooked in modern therapeutic and online validation spaces. These complexities deserve a more nuanced conversation beyond the current narrative that severing ties is always an act of self-preservation and empowerment. I'm hoping my blog will provide space for people on both sides to better understand the dynamics of this situation and act accordingly.
I appreciate your willingness to engage in this conversation with nuance, and I agree that families and relationships are incredibly complex. I’ve subscribed to your Substack and have started reading your articles, and while I may not agree with everything, I do think these discussions are important. Estrangement is never a decision made lightly, and yes, it comes with pain on all sides.
However, the way you frame boundaries and accountability…as if they are arbitrary, unspoken, or unfairly imposed on parents suggests a misunderstanding of what many of us who have chosen estrangement have actually experienced. Boundaries are not arbitrary. They are often the result of years, sometimes decades, of harm, dismissal, and repeated violations that made it clear the relationship could not be maintained in a healthy way.
The question isn’t just "Who defines the boundaries?" but rather "Who gets to decide what they will and won’t tolerate in their own life?" Boundaries are not weapons, nor are they declarations of war. They are simply limits placed to protect one’s well-being. When a parent responds to a boundary with shock, confusion, or resentment, it’s often because the relationship was so unbalanced for so long that the mere act of an adult child asserting themselves feels like a betrayal. But a relationship where one person always has the power and the other must always accommodate is not a relationship, it’s control.
Similarly, accountability is not about endless self-flagellation. It’s about recognizing harm, taking responsibility for it, and making an effort to repair what was broken. If parents find themselves in a "no-win situation," it is often because they refuse to acknowledge the depth of the hurt they caused. Accountability does not mean proving remorse indefinitely, it means demonstrating a real willingness to understand, listen, and change. And yet, many adult children who seek this from their parents are met with defensiveness, minimization, or outright denial.
I understand the concern about estrangement being framed as an "ideology," but for many of us, it wasn’t something we were conditioned into or persuaded to do; it was a painful last resort after years of trying. The real question isn’t why estrangement has become more common, but why so many people have found it necessary.
That doesn’t mean estrangement is the only answer or the best answer for every situation, but it does mean we need to be honest about why so many adult children are making this choice. And the answer isn’t simply that "therapy culture" has led us to cut off our parents it’s that a generation of children grew up feeling unheard, dismissed, or harmed, and when they finally spoke up, they found that nothing changed.
I do agree that this conversation needs more nuance, and I hope your writing encourages reflection on all sides. But I also think it’s important to ask: Are we examining estrangement as a cultural shift, or are we overlooking the fact that many parents refuse to do the difficult work of repair? Because ultimately, estrangement isn’t about punishment. It’s about self-preservation. And if more parents could acknowledge that reality, perhaps fewer children would feel the need to walk away in the first place.
Our family has an estranged adult daughter. Estrangement began after her first marriage. She’s on her second husband now. She has six children, four of whom are now adults. Birthdays, holidays, silence from her end for years and years. I’ve subscribed to this substack in the hope of hearing the more nuanced view of this. Having said that, I would be most interested in hearing from you on your definitions of “harm” and “boundaries.” Put aside the obvious harms of sexual and physical abuse, and the toxicity that results when someone - parent or the child - is or has seriously abused alcohol or drugs. Our relationship with our daughter has been frozen in ice BY HER CHOICE for twenty years despite my wife, our daughter’s mother, reaching out with a lot of the persistence and patience that I don’t have to try to break through and find out “WHY? WHY? WHY? What did we do or not do that ended any hope of a normal adult to adult relationship. As we approach our eighties, my strong preference now is to keep our daughter far away from us. She’s caused too much family anguish.
Thank you for your thoughtful and engaging response, and I truly appreciate your willingness to continue this conversation with nuance. I also welcome you to my Substack and hope we can engage in a meaningful exchange of perspectives.
One thing that stands out in your comment is the reliance on therapy jargon, which has become a defining feature of modern estrangement discourse. Concepts like "boundaries," "accountability," and "doing the work" are presented as self-evident truths, yet they remain ill-defined, highly subjective, and often one-sided. What "work" must a parent do? Who sets the standard? How much is enough? What happens when the parent does "the work" and the estranged adult child still doesn’t feel it’s enough? The ambiguity of these expectations leaves parents in an impossible position, where the goalposts shift endlessly and the criteria for reconciliation remain unclear or unattainable. The fat of this is easily observed in online forums, where adult children often acknowledge their parents will never make the expected "standard."
Additionally, the way boundaries are framed here assumes that parents should simply accept them without question, rather than recognizing that different generations have different expectations around communication, conflict resolution, and family obligations. For many parents, the sudden imposition of rigid "boundaries"—especially when they were never discussed or poorly enunciated prior to estrangement—feels less like healthy relationship-building and more like an ultimatum. If the terms of engagement in a lifelong relationship are unilaterally dictated, is it truly a relationship at all?
Likewise, accountability is framed as a one-way street. Parents are expected to accept full blame and responsibility for every perceived slight, while the adult child’s role in family dynamics is left unexamined. If accountability is about taking responsibility for harm, should that not also include the emotional fallout of estrangement itself? Should there not be mutual recognition of how both parties contributed to breakdowns in communication? If the answer is no, then estrangement is no longer about relational repair—it is about moral judgment and retribution.
You also assert that estrangement is a last resort, not an ideology, but I would challenge that assumption. While many estrangements are undoubtedly personal, the way estrangement is discussed, reinforced, and validated in online communities and therapy culture suggests a broader cultural movement. In previous generations, estrangement occurred, but it was not normalized, celebrated, or framed as a mark of personal empowerment. The shift toward estrangement as an identity—one that is publicly affirmed and ideologically reinforced—suggests that the increase in estrangement is not just about more harmful parents, but about a changing social script that positions family ties as optional and conditional upon emotional perfection.
I completely agree that this conversation requires more nuance, and I hope my writing encourages reflection on all sides. But I also think we must ask: Are we truly seeking repair, or have we created a model where estrangement is the only acceptable response to past hurt? Because ultimately, if estrangement is about self-preservation, not punishment, then surely we must also examine whether the framework being used to justify it actually fosters healing for all—or merely ensures permanent rupture.
i get where you are coming from. The INTENTIONAL SEVERING OF FAMILY AND COMMUNITY TIES during the PTSNB FAKE "PANDEMIC " are difficult for many to see. I have walked on eggshells w my "progressive " ( read indoctrinated) kids since 2021 and still must be careful. I view them as TARGETED and BRAINWASHED and " forgive them for they know not what they do"... but I could have ended up in your situation and am grateful something told me to tread carefully during the long psyop. I hope you find resolution w your kids♥️
Well said Steven. I feel in reading some of these that folks don't have a healthy understanding of what a family relationship is, and that there's a statute of limitations on your parents. That they're human, they're flawed, everyone is, and the internet is just a breeding ground of *exposing*and verifying one side of a coin which should be handled in the privacy of a therapist, a licensed therapist's office.
Thank you for sharing this. I understand how you could feel like this and I empathise. However, as you will see from many of these comments, people rarely estrange themselves from a parent without some very significant reasons. It's not an easy path and I don't think the internet could brainwash someone into doing it. There is more value in trying to understand both sides of the experience so that people can make progress in their relationships.
My problem is that my children decided to 'side' with the one child who silently cut me out of her life, i.e., the silent treatment, with no explanation whatsoever. When I said I couldn't repair what I didn't know, she blocked me. Nobody will explain what I have done. Obviously, I was/am not perfect; however, I raised four children alone (2 birth children, with an abusive husband from whom I separated after 10 years and 2 adopted, as a single person). I know you are only hearing my side, but I love them deeply; I also worked hard, gave them a nice home and they all obtained university degrees. I am now 80, having been abandoned by them two years ago - the heartache is unbearable. In fact, the only thing that keeps me going is the Stoics, e.g., Marcus Aurelius: "You have lost nothing that belongs to you; it was not something of yours that was torn from you, but something that was not in your power has left you."
So very well said! I agree completely with you, Carri. I tried way too often to ignore or put up with my mother’s narcissistic abuse. I couldn’t do it any longer. It was equivalent to ignoring a toxic waste dump in my back yard. Thank you for sharing your meaningful insights.
I’m unusually leery of posting anything personal anywhere on line, but i wanted to do more than push the “Like” button on your response. A sincere thank you for your thoughtful answers to the questions I raised, with what I say with a smile I see as “homework.” :).
I agree with what you said, and add to that when the estranging child has gone on a campaign of character assassination against the elder, as they often do, and now uninvolved relatives are keeping distant because it's all so awkward and unpleasant. Because of the actions of one child, an elder may end up cut off from all their children, their nieces, nephews, grandchildren and more, at a time when their contemporaries and siblings are dying off.
There is no “second go” for parents. Your child is your child. You can’t move on from that with another. The adult child can move one because that is the natural order. The parent is left longing for a relationship with their child which can never be replaced.
Articles about struggle over end of a parent’s life are very difficult for me. Especially when authors generalize about how wonderful a parent was and how awful losing them was. I believe those authors and the feelings they ha. But, please do NOT generalize. It is true for you. I am sorry for YOUR loss. But. . . Many others simply survived their parents. I felt only relief when the final parting came. No longer were the or I disappointed. We were just wonderfully free of reciprocal roles that never worked. With departure came an end to suffering for all.
This really cuts to the heart of a lot to it. Especially this bit: "Try to love and support your parents as best you can for the parent cards you were dealt. Don’t destroy your life while doing it." I think most estranged children are trying to find that balance.
Thank you for this powerfully supportive article about estrangement from adult children.
My oldest daughter, with whom I've been close her entire life, has been estranged almost two years. It took a year for the shock to subside, and fortunately, my spiritual practice has supported me through this process.
I feel peace in my heart, cry when I need to, and send loving prayers and well wishes to her. I know everyone has their unique experience and pray for their peaceful hearts to awaken. 🙏💖
I'm sorry to hear this and I thank you for sharing. I hope that you will find a way to communicate your feelings to your daughter in a way that she will listen to.
Thank you for your caring message, T. Stevens. It's quite a challenging life experience, one I never imagined I would have. That being said, my spiritual practice of many years supports me in 'being in the moment' and 'being with the what-isness of life'. 🙏💫🥰
A guilt I will carry with me to the grave was emigrating with my daughter at the age of 53 and not being there for my mother in her latter years when she lived alone. My brother and his wife and other members of the family were still nearby but she needed better social contact than they provided. Had I stayed I would have been in a position to make life better for her and I failed her.
I had friends at home, a farming family, where three generations lived under the same roof, with the grandparents in a separate self contained wing attached to the house. With five kids, four adults and occasionally me and perhaps another friend or farmworker, meal times were chaotic and NOISY but the goodwill and happiness in that household lit the place up.
The return of multi generational homes would do wonders for social cohesion and elder contentment and I don't doubt would radically reduce the state's welfare bill.
Thank you. The lesson for me is not to take the easy path in life but the right one. I've failed to do that on several occasions in life and one pays for it.
This hit hard. Our family is in the throes of this dynamic. My father made poor choices during his marriage to our mom and since leaving 23 years ago. We have tried to look past the problems on multiple occasions only to find ourselves back at square one a few years or months down the road. I constantly wrestle with my need to avoid contact (for my own self preservation) and the guilt associated with disconnecting from a father that once upon a time was a good dad.
As a family therapist, I would always get parents, and estranged young person, AND any siblings involved in trying to figure it out. Finding common ground, learning to let some things go, and practicing boundaries...
I agree. In those families I would try to meet with each other”faction” separately and then help mediate communication, often in writing before trying in person. Or even just help the “willing” ones to decide whether to write, and how much, or whether to give it time, or simply let it be and find peace with that.
“complicates grieving because it lacks societal..recognition…do not receive the communal support typically afforded to bereaved individuals…societal expectation that parent-child bonds are unbreakble….”
100% this ⬆️ plus all of the well meaning ‘ she’ll come back in time’ comments… Platitudes offered without any evidence, perhaps mostly to keep their own discomfort at bay.
I have had periods of no contact with my own parents & when contact has resumed, it’s not because I want or would ever expect a healthy, close relationship with them. I cannot delude myself that my own child would somehow, magically feel differently.
Thank you for sharing this. Unfortunately communication and conflict patterns can pass down through lineages. I hope you figure out how to communicate your feelings to your child in a way that they will listen to.
My mother was a narcissist, my dad a lovely man but an alcoholic. Neither had any interest in me whatsoever. Barely spoke to me. Never helped me with any problem.
I only achieved peace by moving permanently 3000 miles away from them! Minimal contact.
I had wonderful maternal grandparents though! They are the only reason I survived.
My father’s parents were dead long before I was born. He was an orphan and had a horrible life too.
My younger brother estranged himself right before my father died. I couldn’t understand why he ditched ALL of us. My mother died 20 years after my dad. My parents were smart. They had 7 children and put the fear of damnation into us. It’s fascinating how loyal abused children can be when they grow up. We took superb care of our parents to the bitter end. I don’t blame my brother too much, but there IS such a thing as forgiveness and unconditional love. People only have an average 1.5 children, chances are you’ll die alone. Our Godless culture is not kind to the elderly.
It is fascinating how some people will be loyal to their parents despite abuse. I don't know that you have to offer unconditional love to your parents if they did not offer it to you. Thank you for being so honest and sharing.
I’m not saying that anyone ‘owes’ their parents. It’s a choice. You can forgive them and never allow them into your life. You can ‘settle’ & maintain a relationship. I respect either choice. Every case is different. My mother actually changed her ways and became a decent grandmother. She apologized to me for her cruelty shortly before she died. That meant a lot to me and I’m sure it saved her soul.
My search for answers about my family’s dysfunction lead me finally to inter-generational traumatic narcissism. Daniel Shaw wrote two great books about it. I recommend them highly.
Once I learned about it. I felt my decision to cut my family off was a better decision than I had initially considered it. I originally thought it was a crude method of self-protection. I wasn’t feeling guilty about cutting them off, but Shaw’s books gave me greater appreciation that my decision was on solid ground. Disconnecting was likely the only solution since my parents were never going to change.
We have a right to protect ourselves from harm no matter the source. Parents and grandparents aren’t supposed to be harming their kids but there is a whole subset of parents/grandparents that do harm their kids/grandkids. Society needs to teach kids about harmful parents.
I greatly appreciate you sharing this and will check out the book.
Both are by Daniel Shaw.
1) Traumatic Narcissism and Recovery
2) Traumatic Narcissism Relational Systems of Subjugation
Reconciliation is ideal. But it’s not always realistic. Authoritarian parenting has created a society of children who were not given autonomy over themselves. Parents have caused great harm and abuse and refuse to take responsibility or even have a conversation about it. Now that these children are adults and understand the harm and abuse done to them, they have a right to be estranged. The kids are doing the hard work of breaking generational cycles of trauma.
Yes authoritarian parenting and rigid family values are not beneficial down the line when a child becomes an adult. Thanks for sharing this.
And if the elderly must accept that reconciliation with their own families is not possible, they can still go on to try to help other suffering families through their own honesty, sharing, and self reflection. We can always be willing to explore other definitions of “Family”. ❤️
I’m 77 and have been following Rebecca Mandeville’s work on FSA (family scapegoating abuse) recognizing that I have been a victim starting when I was about 9 and also realizing I have had a Malignant Covert Narcissistic Mother from birth, and an enabling father. I recently moved away from all family to finally end all the emotional and psychological abuse. Thankfully I was able to move back to the Sierra Foothills that I love. But I Am all alone. I started volunteering at the DV shelter and am starting to meet some new people, but of course am very cautious. I already had 3 divorces and lots of Trauma by the time I was 40. Recently I also have tried therapy and took a 6 week course at Kaiser on Trauma. I also have gained much knowledge and support from Many Audible books, and have participated In many 12 step groups, off and on over my life.——-What I am looking for is someone I can participate in Peer Counseling with—-someone who has suffered similarly and can share ideas, compassion and growth experiences with. Does anyone know of a Therapist who is helping people try to find a Therapy Buddy?
I agree. Thank you.
So its always the parents fault?
The answer seems to be that good parents raise happy, productive children, so if you aren't happy and productive, that proves you had lousy parents. So yes, it's always the parents' fault, otherwise the adult children might have to take accountability for how their life is going. And we're not having that.
This is an important conversation. After I got sober in my 30s, I made the decision to ask my husband to take the kids to visit my alcoholic mother. Being with her was too much like reigniting the flames of resentment and pain that I was working to free myself from with the 12 Steps. Fifteen years later she was dying of kidney failure from her alcoholism. With years of recovery behind me, and the earned awareness that, for my recovery, my actions needed to be congruent with my sober values. I'm an only child and I took care of her because I wanted to make sure that I would have no regrets about my behavior. I was able to discharge my responsibilities and I'm left with no feeling of what I should have or could have done, and I'm grateful for that.
I followed that until it threatened my sobriety and self preservation became primary.
I appreciate that. I was fortunate to have the support I needed to get through it sober.
Yes I had that too in the sense of love and tolerance is our code. But ongoing abuse and scapegoating is not tolerable - at least for me. Tragic but I had to be true to myself - which meant protecting myself. I’m so glad you could be there for your mother. I love my family and to have to distance them was against my nature and extremely painful although necessary.
You did the right thing
I’m having some trouble even reading this. The saying now is FAFO and it can be applied in so many ways. I am aware of parental estrangement from both ends …
As a child I was the identified victim in the family. If there was not enough of something, I was the one who was shorted or blamed. So I basically left my family when I started college. Physical and emotional distance was necessary; actually it was necessary since I was seen as the one who was going to stay and take care of the aging parents. I saw them and visited but absolutely kept my distance from them. It was healthier even though I made plenty of mistakes without the safety net of family.
Now one of my sons is mostly estranged from me and I don’t really know his children. He has told me that I did a lousy job as a parent and made him weak, plus his wife dies not like me. I frankly don’t recognize his values and ways anymore. But I have always said that loving with open hands is how I want be as a person. He is free to leave or to come back if he wants, but it is his choice. I miss him but he has made his choices plain and I have to respect that.
So … I think mostly parents that ‘find Jesus’ at the end of life when they are living the results of their choices and then whine or regret and demand grace are not realistic and maybe even continuing the same actions that created the estrangement. I have no regrets about not being close to my manipulative mother. I greave that my son no longer likes me but I like myself and don’t want to be the scape goat for things he does not like in his life.
We all have to take responsibility for our actions. By the way, I am 76 and have had 2 near death experiences so I am talking from my own experience and decisions. If you have read this far, thank you since this is probably not a popular opinion.
I think there is something about estrangement going down family lines. Thank you for sharing this.
Thanks for reading but I am not sure what you mean. I guess you mean patterns in behavior or unconscious repetition of the very things estrangement tries to change. In my case I “married my parents” … he was a combination of my parents’ characteristics and tried to please him after I had decides I could not please my parents. But I tried to do things differently as a parent. I have 3 children. I am very close to my daughter, in fact I live with her. I am estranged from my son who tries to please his father and wife. I am close to my youngest son; we talk about once a week, trade jokes every day and he visits twice a year … he lives in Texas and I live in NoVa. So it’s a mixed bag. Hooefully, healthier patterns will come in the next generation.
Thank you for your post. I understand. I believe, as you stated, in love with open hands. My daughter is in a similar place (many negative judgments of my parenting) and, like you, I am accepting of her feelings toward me. I like myself, I continue to work hard to be the best person I can be. I acknowledge my many faults and shortcomings and work to be better and do better. I welcome her at any time, if and when she is ready. Until then, I have grieved, still grieve some days, and take steps forward, appreciating the blessings that are present. Thank you for writing your piece. It helped me a great deal.
Thank you fo sharing.
It is so hard not to try to mend the breach because loving with open hands and respecting them still leaves a hurt in our hearts. I have learned that apologizing or trying to talk about our estrangement only makes it worse. Learning when to reach out and when to just stop and accept my son as he is now was a long process. But I am at peace.
I hope that you too are at peace and that you continue to make your life the best that you can. Peace and grace to you.
What is FAFSO?
FAFO is fuck around and find out. Actions have consequences.
Put your hand in the stove and get burned.
Sleep with dogs and get fleas.
Lots of ways of saying the same thing … hope that helps
I was a hospital chaplain for 20 years so we have some things in common. Good luck with your posts. I have not had the courage or the need to really post. I just do long comments. LOL
Technically, the isolation of parents can be classified as a form of elder abuse—as defined by the World Health Organisation (WHO):
“The abuse of older people, also known as elder abuse, is a single or repeated act, or lack of appropriate action, occurring within any relationship where there is an expectation of trust, which causes harm or distress to an older person. This type of violence constitutes a violation of human rights and includes physical, sexual, psychological and emotional abuse; financial and material abuse; abandonment; neglect; and serious loss of dignity and respect.”
I'm glad this topic has has been raised in this forum, because it is one that has far reaching implications for all of us. If people abandon the responsibilities and obligations inherent in traditional family ties because of self-protection from perceived past events (real or not) and ideological differences, elders may increasingly face poor health and loneliness as they age, casting them onto the mercies of impersonal and uncaring State agencies and private care facilities.
Notwithstanding the largely unproven "cycle-breaking" mantra, the modelling people engaging in this practice may well find themselves on the receiving end of much the same treatment as they age. I'm not saying every parent is perfect—and it is true that some have made terrible mistakes—but my advice is to model what you want to receive from your own children.
I understand the concern for elder well-being, but framing estrangement as a form of elder abuse disregards the very real harm that many of us have endured at the hands of our parents. Estrangement is rarely a decision made lightly and it often comes after years of unaddressed harm, manipulation, or abuse. To suggest that maintaining contact is an ‘obligation’ ignores the responsibility parents have to nurture safe and healthy relationships with their children in the first place.
In my case, my mother has never acknowledged the physical/emotional/mental damage she caused, nor made any effort to repair it. While she may now be a decent grandparent, she seeks validation through external relationships rather than taking accountability for the past. Maintaining a connection at my own emotional expense, simply to ensure her comfort in old age, would mean continuing a cycle of harm. That is not ‘modelling what I want to receive’ and it’s self-sacrifice at the cost of my own well-being.
Estrangement isn’t about abandoning responsibility; it’s about recognizing when a relationship is too harmful to maintain. If parents want relationships with their adult children, they should prioritize repair, accountability, and respect…not just assume that tradition or obligation will keep those ties intact."
Hi Carri, I appreciate your perspective and fully acknowledge that estrangement is sometimes a necessary step for self-preservation in cases of real harm. However, as I’ve explored in my Estrangement Ideology series (https://thestyxian.substack.com/), what was once a deeply personal and situational choice has increasingly been shaped into a broader movement and identity, one that not only normalizes estrangement but often reinforces permanent severance rather than encouraging resolution where possible. I feel that the shift from estrangement as a last resort to estrangement as an empowered stance has far-reaching consequences—not just for individuals and their families, but for society’s understanding of generational bonds, accountability and care. While your experience is deeply personal, the modern framework around estrangement often discourages reconciliation altogether, even when repair might be possible. This is part of a much larger cultural shift, one that in my opinion deserves thoughtful discussion beyond the immediate pain and validity of individual experiences.
I agree with the statement "It is not about punishment but self-preservation ". I have been estranged from my entire family for 40 years. At the age of 5 my father began sexually abusing me. This continued until I was 11. My mother knew the whole time it was happening and accused me of being too pretty, too smart and it was all my fault this was happening to me. I was 5 years old. I'm the youngest of 4, an older brother and 2 older sisters. In my early 30's, I was suicidal and hospitalized in a psychic ward. Through treatment I was able to confront my parents and they denied everything. They tried, unsuccessfully, to sue my therapist and the hospital and the state of Arizona. My siblings all sided with them. My parents are both gone. There was never any attempt by my siblings to connect with me.
I feel your premise is extremely one-sided. I truly believe the choice to separate from one's family is painful and difficult and is done for the soul to survive and thrive.
Please realize how painful your comments are to those of us who have made this choice.
Hi Myrna, You experience is really horrific and almost certainly led to painful choices. My writing is not about you. It arises from being cut off by my own children for philosophical reasons and reactions during the elevated emotional conditions of the covid period, no abuse involved apart from some raised voices and overshared articles and memes. I then discovered that their mother and I had been viciously smeared and vilified in a public online forum. My critique of estrangement as an ideology arises from some six months studying the dynamics of these groups. Not too many of them have stories like yours.
I am saddened to hear of your situation with your children. I can understand your pain and suffering. When I told people I was not in contact with my family, that is all I ever said. I never gave details or blame. There are many more details to the story as you could well imagine. I was in the middle of a divorce, and I requested that their father not let my son,9 and my daughter,7 be alone with my father. My parents took me to court to sue for grand parental rights. My siblings and my parents made depositions against me, and I made my deposition. The court ruled they could have supervised visitation once a month. My children remained in contact with their grandparents and aunts and uncles and cousins.
And when they were eighteen, they made their own decision about those relationships. I realize it is all so very complicated. I understand the pain and heartache. I would just like you to also understand the difficulty and pain it is to hear your words. And feel once again that is my fault and I am carrying the burden of the sins of my father and mother. I wish you a peaceful life. I hope there is some reconciliation for your family.
Hi Myrna!
In Steven’s recent post, he acknowledges that there are situations where estrangement and no contact are completely necessary.
I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through as that’s an immense amount of pain to carry for so long. As someone who has also experienced sexual abuse, I understand how deep and lasting the impact can be. Even at 37, I’m still in the process of healing.
I'm 71 and have been in and out of therapy all of these years. I can tell you, I have a good life. I have worked very hard to create a peaceful existence. I have many friends who love me. I have many friends whom I love. I wish you all the best on your life journey 💖 You've got this!
Interesting theoretical perspective. I do sometimes wonder about those that didn’t try very often or very hard to make amends. For someone like me, however, who tried 20-30 times with the same result, I KNOW that I gave it the best shot I could.
Hi Steven,
I appreciate your thoughtful perspective and the recognition that, for many, estrangement is a necessary step for self-preservation. I also understand the concern about broader cultural shifts and how estrangement is framed in modern discussions.
That said, I think this is where deep truths come into play—two seemingly opposing ideas can both hold weight. Estrangement can be both an act of self-protection and a loss. It can be both a necessary boundary and a painful rupture. It can be both empowering and deeply sorrowful.
I don’t believe estrangement is inherently about rejecting reconciliation; rather, it’s often about accepting that reconciliation isn’t always possible at least not without genuine accountability and repair. In my case, my mother has never taken responsibility for the harm she caused. She may be a good grandparent now, but that doesn’t erase what was done or the impact it had on me. Deep truth: people can change in some ways while remaining unchanged in others.
I agree that generational bonds and accountability are important, but I also believe accountability should apply to both parents and children. If reconciliation is to happen, it has to be built on mutual effort, not just a societal expectation that family ties should always be preserved.
I appreciate this discussion because it highlights the tension between repair and release, obligation and autonomy, connection and protection all of which are deeply personal and situational. Thank you for engaging in this conversation with nuance.
What a beautiful and thoughtful way of expressing it. Thank you.
Hi Carri,
Families and relationships are incredibly complex, and as you say, estrangement is deeply personal, with pain on all sides. I wouldn’t presume to judge your experience or how you’ve chosen to navigate it.
Having spent a great deal of time studying estrangement as an ideological movement, particularly its mediation through therapists and online communities, I’ve observed a huge generational gap in understanding. For instance, when I first encountered the accusation of violating "boundaries," I had no idea what was being leveled at me. What boundaries? Who defined them? When and for what purpose? At what point did stepping over some arbitrary and often unspoken line in the sand become grounds for permanent severance? And how did this therapy-driven language suddenly become the defining framework for family relationships?
The same applies to "accountability." What exactly does it mean? Who decides what constitutes accountability, and how much is enough? Do parents need to engage in a perpetual act of self-flagellation, endlessly proving their remorse, without any clear path to reconciliation? The way these concepts are applied seems deeply one-sided, often positioning parents in a no-win situation, where they must "prove" themselves according to evolving and often unattainable standards—all while being given little to no input in the process.
This is why I started exploring the ideological underpinnings of modern estrangement—to help make sense of what, to many older generations, feels like a power dynamic in which parents are cast as irredeemable, while adult children assume the roles of judge, jury and executioner. My article Part 3: The One-Sided Path to Redemption examines this dynamic in detail, and I’ll be releasing another article soon on how No Contact regimes place parents in a lose-lose situation.
Of course, I recognize that some relationships truly are harmful, and in such cases, distance may be necessary. But estrangement also comes with significant emotional and relational risks for both the parent and the adult child—a reality that is often overlooked in modern therapeutic and online validation spaces. These complexities deserve a more nuanced conversation beyond the current narrative that severing ties is always an act of self-preservation and empowerment. I'm hoping my blog will provide space for people on both sides to better understand the dynamics of this situation and act accordingly.
Thank you for putting so much time and thought into this comment. I really appreciate your insights.
I appreciate your willingness to engage in this conversation with nuance, and I agree that families and relationships are incredibly complex. I’ve subscribed to your Substack and have started reading your articles, and while I may not agree with everything, I do think these discussions are important. Estrangement is never a decision made lightly, and yes, it comes with pain on all sides.
However, the way you frame boundaries and accountability…as if they are arbitrary, unspoken, or unfairly imposed on parents suggests a misunderstanding of what many of us who have chosen estrangement have actually experienced. Boundaries are not arbitrary. They are often the result of years, sometimes decades, of harm, dismissal, and repeated violations that made it clear the relationship could not be maintained in a healthy way.
The question isn’t just "Who defines the boundaries?" but rather "Who gets to decide what they will and won’t tolerate in their own life?" Boundaries are not weapons, nor are they declarations of war. They are simply limits placed to protect one’s well-being. When a parent responds to a boundary with shock, confusion, or resentment, it’s often because the relationship was so unbalanced for so long that the mere act of an adult child asserting themselves feels like a betrayal. But a relationship where one person always has the power and the other must always accommodate is not a relationship, it’s control.
Similarly, accountability is not about endless self-flagellation. It’s about recognizing harm, taking responsibility for it, and making an effort to repair what was broken. If parents find themselves in a "no-win situation," it is often because they refuse to acknowledge the depth of the hurt they caused. Accountability does not mean proving remorse indefinitely, it means demonstrating a real willingness to understand, listen, and change. And yet, many adult children who seek this from their parents are met with defensiveness, minimization, or outright denial.
I understand the concern about estrangement being framed as an "ideology," but for many of us, it wasn’t something we were conditioned into or persuaded to do; it was a painful last resort after years of trying. The real question isn’t why estrangement has become more common, but why so many people have found it necessary.
That doesn’t mean estrangement is the only answer or the best answer for every situation, but it does mean we need to be honest about why so many adult children are making this choice. And the answer isn’t simply that "therapy culture" has led us to cut off our parents it’s that a generation of children grew up feeling unheard, dismissed, or harmed, and when they finally spoke up, they found that nothing changed.
I do agree that this conversation needs more nuance, and I hope your writing encourages reflection on all sides. But I also think it’s important to ask: Are we examining estrangement as a cultural shift, or are we overlooking the fact that many parents refuse to do the difficult work of repair? Because ultimately, estrangement isn’t about punishment. It’s about self-preservation. And if more parents could acknowledge that reality, perhaps fewer children would feel the need to walk away in the first place.
Our family has an estranged adult daughter. Estrangement began after her first marriage. She’s on her second husband now. She has six children, four of whom are now adults. Birthdays, holidays, silence from her end for years and years. I’ve subscribed to this substack in the hope of hearing the more nuanced view of this. Having said that, I would be most interested in hearing from you on your definitions of “harm” and “boundaries.” Put aside the obvious harms of sexual and physical abuse, and the toxicity that results when someone - parent or the child - is or has seriously abused alcohol or drugs. Our relationship with our daughter has been frozen in ice BY HER CHOICE for twenty years despite my wife, our daughter’s mother, reaching out with a lot of the persistence and patience that I don’t have to try to break through and find out “WHY? WHY? WHY? What did we do or not do that ended any hope of a normal adult to adult relationship. As we approach our eighties, my strong preference now is to keep our daughter far away from us. She’s caused too much family anguish.
Thank you for your thoughtful and engaging response, and I truly appreciate your willingness to continue this conversation with nuance. I also welcome you to my Substack and hope we can engage in a meaningful exchange of perspectives.
One thing that stands out in your comment is the reliance on therapy jargon, which has become a defining feature of modern estrangement discourse. Concepts like "boundaries," "accountability," and "doing the work" are presented as self-evident truths, yet they remain ill-defined, highly subjective, and often one-sided. What "work" must a parent do? Who sets the standard? How much is enough? What happens when the parent does "the work" and the estranged adult child still doesn’t feel it’s enough? The ambiguity of these expectations leaves parents in an impossible position, where the goalposts shift endlessly and the criteria for reconciliation remain unclear or unattainable. The fat of this is easily observed in online forums, where adult children often acknowledge their parents will never make the expected "standard."
Additionally, the way boundaries are framed here assumes that parents should simply accept them without question, rather than recognizing that different generations have different expectations around communication, conflict resolution, and family obligations. For many parents, the sudden imposition of rigid "boundaries"—especially when they were never discussed or poorly enunciated prior to estrangement—feels less like healthy relationship-building and more like an ultimatum. If the terms of engagement in a lifelong relationship are unilaterally dictated, is it truly a relationship at all?
Likewise, accountability is framed as a one-way street. Parents are expected to accept full blame and responsibility for every perceived slight, while the adult child’s role in family dynamics is left unexamined. If accountability is about taking responsibility for harm, should that not also include the emotional fallout of estrangement itself? Should there not be mutual recognition of how both parties contributed to breakdowns in communication? If the answer is no, then estrangement is no longer about relational repair—it is about moral judgment and retribution.
You also assert that estrangement is a last resort, not an ideology, but I would challenge that assumption. While many estrangements are undoubtedly personal, the way estrangement is discussed, reinforced, and validated in online communities and therapy culture suggests a broader cultural movement. In previous generations, estrangement occurred, but it was not normalized, celebrated, or framed as a mark of personal empowerment. The shift toward estrangement as an identity—one that is publicly affirmed and ideologically reinforced—suggests that the increase in estrangement is not just about more harmful parents, but about a changing social script that positions family ties as optional and conditional upon emotional perfection.
I completely agree that this conversation requires more nuance, and I hope my writing encourages reflection on all sides. But I also think we must ask: Are we truly seeking repair, or have we created a model where estrangement is the only acceptable response to past hurt? Because ultimately, if estrangement is about self-preservation, not punishment, then surely we must also examine whether the framework being used to justify it actually fosters healing for all—or merely ensures permanent rupture.
Carrie H, I find your words excellent and really relatable. Thank you so much.
i get where you are coming from. The INTENTIONAL SEVERING OF FAMILY AND COMMUNITY TIES during the PTSNB FAKE "PANDEMIC " are difficult for many to see. I have walked on eggshells w my "progressive " ( read indoctrinated) kids since 2021 and still must be careful. I view them as TARGETED and BRAINWASHED and " forgive them for they know not what they do"... but I could have ended up in your situation and am grateful something told me to tread carefully during the long psyop. I hope you find resolution w your kids♥️
Well said Steven. I feel in reading some of these that folks don't have a healthy understanding of what a family relationship is, and that there's a statute of limitations on your parents. That they're human, they're flawed, everyone is, and the internet is just a breeding ground of *exposing*and verifying one side of a coin which should be handled in the privacy of a therapist, a licensed therapist's office.
Thank you for sharing this. I understand how you could feel like this and I empathise. However, as you will see from many of these comments, people rarely estrange themselves from a parent without some very significant reasons. It's not an easy path and I don't think the internet could brainwash someone into doing it. There is more value in trying to understand both sides of the experience so that people can make progress in their relationships.
My problem is that my children decided to 'side' with the one child who silently cut me out of her life, i.e., the silent treatment, with no explanation whatsoever. When I said I couldn't repair what I didn't know, she blocked me. Nobody will explain what I have done. Obviously, I was/am not perfect; however, I raised four children alone (2 birth children, with an abusive husband from whom I separated after 10 years and 2 adopted, as a single person). I know you are only hearing my side, but I love them deeply; I also worked hard, gave them a nice home and they all obtained university degrees. I am now 80, having been abandoned by them two years ago - the heartache is unbearable. In fact, the only thing that keeps me going is the Stoics, e.g., Marcus Aurelius: "You have lost nothing that belongs to you; it was not something of yours that was torn from you, but something that was not in your power has left you."
So very well said! I agree completely with you, Carri. I tried way too often to ignore or put up with my mother’s narcissistic abuse. I couldn’t do it any longer. It was equivalent to ignoring a toxic waste dump in my back yard. Thank you for sharing your meaningful insights.
Thank you so much!
I’m unusually leery of posting anything personal anywhere on line, but i wanted to do more than push the “Like” button on your response. A sincere thank you for your thoughtful answers to the questions I raised, with what I say with a smile I see as “homework.” :).
I complete understand and respect your right to privacy. I’m always appreciative of any dialogue.
I agree with what you said, and add to that when the estranging child has gone on a campaign of character assassination against the elder, as they often do, and now uninvolved relatives are keeping distant because it's all so awkward and unpleasant. Because of the actions of one child, an elder may end up cut off from all their children, their nieces, nephews, grandchildren and more, at a time when their contemporaries and siblings are dying off.
There is no “second go” for parents. Your child is your child. You can’t move on from that with another. The adult child can move one because that is the natural order. The parent is left longing for a relationship with their child which can never be replaced.
It's deeply sad when a parent wants to repair the relationship but is unable to. Thank you for your comment.
Articles about struggle over end of a parent’s life are very difficult for me. Especially when authors generalize about how wonderful a parent was and how awful losing them was. I believe those authors and the feelings they ha. But, please do NOT generalize. It is true for you. I am sorry for YOUR loss. But. . . Many others simply survived their parents. I felt only relief when the final parting came. No longer were the or I disappointed. We were just wonderfully free of reciprocal roles that never worked. With departure came an end to suffering for all.
I am sorry that you had to survive your parents and I'm happy that you experienced relief when it ended. Not all parents are loving and good.
Wife and I experienced serious parent issues.
We supported parents when other siblings didn’t.
I’m 81 and wife is 75.
We’re both happy we helped despite serious financial stress when we helped.
Siblings became estranged and now blame parents for issues they have.
My advice, you or have one mother and father. People are not perfect including your parents.
Life is unfair. Some get good parents, others terrible ones. Most are in between.
Death is final and forever.
Try to love and support your parents as best you can for the parent cards you were dealt.
Don’t destroy your life while doing it.
Soon they will die and shortly after that so will you.
This really cuts to the heart of a lot to it. Especially this bit: "Try to love and support your parents as best you can for the parent cards you were dealt. Don’t destroy your life while doing it." I think most estranged children are trying to find that balance.
Thank you for this powerfully supportive article about estrangement from adult children.
My oldest daughter, with whom I've been close her entire life, has been estranged almost two years. It took a year for the shock to subside, and fortunately, my spiritual practice has supported me through this process.
I feel peace in my heart, cry when I need to, and send loving prayers and well wishes to her. I know everyone has their unique experience and pray for their peaceful hearts to awaken. 🙏💖
I'm sorry to hear this and I thank you for sharing. I hope that you will find a way to communicate your feelings to your daughter in a way that she will listen to.
Thank you for your caring message, T. Stevens. It's quite a challenging life experience, one I never imagined I would have. That being said, my spiritual practice of many years supports me in 'being in the moment' and 'being with the what-isness of life'. 🙏💫🥰
A guilt I will carry with me to the grave was emigrating with my daughter at the age of 53 and not being there for my mother in her latter years when she lived alone. My brother and his wife and other members of the family were still nearby but she needed better social contact than they provided. Had I stayed I would have been in a position to make life better for her and I failed her.
I had friends at home, a farming family, where three generations lived under the same roof, with the grandparents in a separate self contained wing attached to the house. With five kids, four adults and occasionally me and perhaps another friend or farmworker, meal times were chaotic and NOISY but the goodwill and happiness in that household lit the place up.
The return of multi generational homes would do wonders for social cohesion and elder contentment and I don't doubt would radically reduce the state's welfare bill.
I'm sorry to hear about your feelings of sadness and guilt. I hope you can show yourself compassion.
Thank you. The lesson for me is not to take the easy path in life but the right one. I've failed to do that on several occasions in life and one pays for it.
This hit hard. Our family is in the throes of this dynamic. My father made poor choices during his marriage to our mom and since leaving 23 years ago. We have tried to look past the problems on multiple occasions only to find ourselves back at square one a few years or months down the road. I constantly wrestle with my need to avoid contact (for my own self preservation) and the guilt associated with disconnecting from a father that once upon a time was a good dad.
Oh boy it is complex when the relationship in the present moment hurts you but the parent was good in many ways. Thank you for sharing.
I’m not doing a great job navigating this complexity either. Both solutions gut me. Disengaging and engaging
As a family therapist, I would always get parents, and estranged young person, AND any siblings involved in trying to figure it out. Finding common ground, learning to let some things go, and practicing boundaries...
This is so helpful for relationships where both parties want to fix things. Sometimes it just isn't possible though. Thanks for sharing.
I agree. In those families I would try to meet with each other”faction” separately and then help mediate communication, often in writing before trying in person. Or even just help the “willing” ones to decide whether to write, and how much, or whether to give it time, or simply let it be and find peace with that.
Humans are complicated!
“complicates grieving because it lacks societal..recognition…do not receive the communal support typically afforded to bereaved individuals…societal expectation that parent-child bonds are unbreakble….”
100% this ⬆️ plus all of the well meaning ‘ she’ll come back in time’ comments… Platitudes offered without any evidence, perhaps mostly to keep their own discomfort at bay.
I have had periods of no contact with my own parents & when contact has resumed, it’s not because I want or would ever expect a healthy, close relationship with them. I cannot delude myself that my own child would somehow, magically feel differently.
Great piece Shelley
Thank you for sharing this. Unfortunately communication and conflict patterns can pass down through lineages. I hope you figure out how to communicate your feelings to your child in a way that they will listen to.
So painful to read and such a necessary piece to share. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
My mother was a narcissist, my dad a lovely man but an alcoholic. Neither had any interest in me whatsoever. Barely spoke to me. Never helped me with any problem.
I only achieved peace by moving permanently 3000 miles away from them! Minimal contact.
I had wonderful maternal grandparents though! They are the only reason I survived.
My father’s parents were dead long before I was born. He was an orphan and had a horrible life too.
It's sad how these things flow down generations. Well done for finding your peace and thanks for commenting.
My younger brother estranged himself right before my father died. I couldn’t understand why he ditched ALL of us. My mother died 20 years after my dad. My parents were smart. They had 7 children and put the fear of damnation into us. It’s fascinating how loyal abused children can be when they grow up. We took superb care of our parents to the bitter end. I don’t blame my brother too much, but there IS such a thing as forgiveness and unconditional love. People only have an average 1.5 children, chances are you’ll die alone. Our Godless culture is not kind to the elderly.
It is fascinating how some people will be loyal to their parents despite abuse. I don't know that you have to offer unconditional love to your parents if they did not offer it to you. Thank you for being so honest and sharing.
I’m not saying that anyone ‘owes’ their parents. It’s a choice. You can forgive them and never allow them into your life. You can ‘settle’ & maintain a relationship. I respect either choice. Every case is different. My mother actually changed her ways and became a decent grandmother. She apologized to me for her cruelty shortly before she died. That meant a lot to me and I’m sure it saved her soul.
Yes parents can often heal the relationship through being good grandparents